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Thread: Synergy 2011 presentation follow-up

  1. #1
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    Default Synergy 2011 presentation follow-up

    At Synergy 2011 I gave a presentation on JSON, however by the end I suspect that I had bemused, rather than enlightened, the majority of the audience. (By diligently asking around, I was able to find about five people who were prepared to say they had grokked what I was on about... not so good out of around 80 in the hall! )

    To try and make amends for this, I have published a much more fully explained example on Unicorn's web site, which can be found under Portfolio->Sample Applications as "VDF Ajax JSON Interface Sample". As well as the explanations, there is a full sample application which can be accessed from there.

    I hope it helps to clarify what I was talking about in Orlando.

    Mike

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    Default Re: Synergy 2011 presentation follow-up

    As a follow-up to that VDF Ajax JSON interface sample, I have now also posted a VDF Ajax JSON-P interface sample. It does the same things, but uses JSON-P to get its data from a server other than the one the web page was loaded from.

    Mike

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    Default Re: Synergy 2011 presentation follow-up

    Brilliant Mike, brilliant. I wish I could tell you that the fog's entirely cleared, but I'm not the quickest study. This is the future and I can see guys sitting at the bar at Synergies future talking about this presentation and your work (yours and Sture's) as having been a bellwether in their web development efforts. Lots to study, lots to learn. Thanks to you both.

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    Default Re: Synergy 2011 presentation follow-up

    Hi Mike,
    I must say I know what you mean, you kind of felt like you shot yourself in the foot or something like that. I always try to keep this in mind when doing a product demo etc., these people may not have a clue about what you are talking about and that can make anyone feel strange. What you are doing here is very professional and shows that you take your work very seriously. This is a good thing.
    Last edited by Gregg Finney; 9-Jun-2011 at 01:14 PM.
    Gregg Finney



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    Default Re: Synergy 2011 presentation follow-up

    Thank you Dan! Keep at it - the fog should mostly clear if you don't worry too much about Sture's stuff (which really is rocket science) and just take it as a given. My own role was more about assembling the various bits into something that worked.

    In fact probably nobody should worry too much about the low-level work-arounds used to get it to work - those will pass away when DAW have time to build these capabilities into the product. The things to concentrate on are the overall issues: the importance - even prevalence - of JSON as an Ajax data-transfer protocol and the importance of JSON-P (or something like it: XMLHttpRequest Level 2 - or Microsoft's alternative - may well supplant it once the older browsers die out) in allowing JavaScript applications to draw data from multiple sources.

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike Peat; 10-Jun-2011 at 03:25 AM. Reason: Tweak

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    Default Re: Synergy 2011 presentation follow-up

    Greg

    Thank you!

    Yes, the problem is that when we talk about it among "ourselves" (unspecified, but they know who they are ) we get all excited about the nifty new stuff we can "show and tell", forgetting that not everybody may be starting from exactly the same place we are.

    OTOH, we did hint that it would be quite a hard presentation.

    Mike

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    Default Re: Synergy 2011 presentation follow-up

    PS - I have added a picture to the JSON-P article which may make it simpler to understand what is going on.

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike Peat; 10-Jun-2011 at 04:22 AM. Reason: link

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    Default Re: Synergy 2011 presentation follow-up

    Thanks for sharing, Mike. It is great to see efforts to use JSON-in in the vdf community. Maybe we could do a VDF JSON hackathon somewhere in the future - maybe on the next EDUC?

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    Default Re: Synergy 2011 presentation follow-up

    Hi Mike, all very interesting. I wasn't at Synergy so didn't have the opportunity to fall asleep in your presentation. However, I've read some of what you've posted and have a question. Is it all based on Sture's "Some degree of Introspection"? If so and everyone's afraid to update their FMAC (and I certainly understand why, having done it a few times back in the day...) then what good is it all until some means of getting around that problem can be found?

    I can see where json would be a great tool so hope that the answer is either no or JT is working on an answer or even that I'm all wet because I misread the article.
    -Bob
    Bob Worsley
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    Do or do not. There is no try. — Yoda

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    Default Re: Synergy 2011 presentation follow-up

    Bob

    You are not all wet. You are correct: it needs the hack to FMAC to work.

    My intention is more to illustrate these things than to suggest that anybody actually go down that route right now.

    My understanding is that "JSON-in" should make it into the product in a reasonable timeframe, however just what form that will take is still unknown.

    If, for instance, these articles prompted a lot of you guys to say: "Hey! Not only do we want to have JSON, but that whole JSON-P thing would be a real help!", then it might be that DAW's solution would be along the lines of allowing for a built-in ability to inspect Struct definitions at runtime, and build onwards from that.

    OTOH, if people went, "JSON yes, but we don't have any need for that JSON-P thing.", then DAW's JSON solution might be much more "shrink-wrapped", doing JSON parsing into structs in the run-time, out of our sight. Probably quite a bit faster, might well be safer... but wouldn't then be adaptable for the cunning JSON-P tricks and who-knows-what-else besides.

    So knowing some of the things that might be done is, to my mind anyway, an important aspect of making an informed choice.

    I'd like to say that was the whole point... but there was also the "Wow! Cool!" aspect as well.

    Also, Sture has a different, non-dangerous (if a bit tedious), way of doing it. I'll let him elaborate on that if he wants to.

    Mike

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