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View Full Version : Re: Overcoming the "One man band gets hit by truck" worry.



Jim Rose
14-Dec-2006, 03:16 PM
Gentlemen
I am a dinosaur from 2.3b (since 1985) and within the last 60 days have
acquired vdf12. I am also in the "one man band"

Of everything that I've read, I must ask:

Where is DataAccess Corp in all of this?

It is a direct benefit to DAC that we all represent DAC in a professional
and successful manner.
It seems to me that having the ability to advertise your software as
"Backed by DAW" would be a big selling point, just like being a "Microsoft
Certified Professional" or "Novell Certified". These companies hand these
out and if one of them screws up, Microsoft and Novell don't get screwed and
sued.

I'm not saying that DAW needs a copy of every code written and sold or even
that they need to represent that THEY will assume the duties if YOU get hit
by the bus, but they could surely create something (even if it's just a
marketing ploy) that we could point our customers to and show a
support/backup/babysitter service if the bus comes.

Jim Rose



"StarZen Technologies" <info@starzen.com> wrote in message
news:C2F8E58C1F7D4A4CB525AC96D503B58E0D1340@bunyip .abacus-labs.com...
> Archie
>
> first and foremost (too late for this client) you need to do everything to
> make yourself look bigger. It is easier than one would think.
>
> Then if that still doesnt help you can do a few things such as offering
> source code escrow as BO mentioned but it is complicated and can get
> expensive as you have to hire a lawyer to do this sort of thing and also
> adds to your operating expenses in time as you have to keep updating this
> also.
>
> You can of course also sell the rights to the source to the company with a
> list of capable developers in case the need arises.
>
> Another option that David mentioned is teaming up with another DataFlex
> developer as a backup plan. That way you can show to the client that there
> is backup available.
>
> Also show them how long you are in business already and possibly show them
> references of larger long term clients.
>
> Last but not least sometimes you may not be able to make someone happy and
> you may loose business because of it. But most times this was probably
> business you wouldnt have been happy with anyway.
>
> --
> Michael Salzlechner
> StarZen Technologies, Inc
> Visual DataFlex Controls, Tools and consulting
> http://www.starzen.com
>

Larry Heiges
14-Dec-2006, 05:39 PM
Jim,

One question would be how much you or the client is willing to spend
time and money to back you up. There are quite a few around that would
have some time to put into supporting others, but most don't work for
free. The new tools will usually make it easier to see what someone
else is doing, but the best bet for a successful backup would be to do
something before the "truck hits". You might look into a code review
type of arrangement with another developer so both would get some
benefit for the time... you would get another set of eyes and someone
else that has touched the software, and the other developer can fill
some hours. Depending on the other developers commitments, etc., you
may be able to introduce him/her as "my emergency backup" with more
behind it than just a name.

It has been my experience that many software houses don't have very
wide "institutional memory" where the software is concerned. They
will become big and add marketing, but there will still only be one or
two programmers that have deep connections with the software.

Larry Heiges
App-2-Win Systems, Inc.
LookFeel for Windows
http://app-2-win.com
LFW7sp3
LFW11

Larry R Pint
18-Dec-2006, 10:06 AM
Data Access does have a consulting group that can do projects for you and/or
your clients and could be your backup in case you are hit by a truck. There
have been concerns in the past about DAW's group competing with you. I have
not had any experience with this and do not know if this is still an issue.

As Larry said, with VDF it's easier for another programmer to pick up your
work if you follow the framework and do things DAW's way. I would work on
developing a relationship with one or more other developers to back each
other up.

Larry Pint
SOFT-STAR, Inc.

"Jim Rose" <jerosejr@i55.com> wrote in message
news:M0Lovu7HHHA.3804@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
> Gentlemen
> I am a dinosaur from 2.3b (since 1985) and within the last 60 days have
> acquired vdf12. I am also in the "one man band"
>
> Of everything that I've read, I must ask:
>
> Where is DataAccess Corp in all of this?
>
> It is a direct benefit to DAC that we all represent DAC in a professional
> and successful manner.
> It seems to me that having the ability to advertise your software as
> "Backed by DAW" would be a big selling point, just like being a "Microsoft
> Certified Professional" or "Novell Certified". These companies hand these
> out and if one of them screws up, Microsoft and Novell don't get screwed
> and
> sued.
>
> I'm not saying that DAW needs a copy of every code written and sold or
> even
> that they need to represent that THEY will assume the duties if YOU get
> hit
> by the bus, but they could surely create something (even if it's just a
> marketing ploy) that we could point our customers to and show a
> support/backup/babysitter service if the bus comes.
>
> Jim Rose
>
>
>
> "StarZen Technologies" <info@starzen.com> wrote in message
> news:C2F8E58C1F7D4A4CB525AC96D503B58E0D1340@bunyip .abacus-labs.com...
>> Archie
>>
>> first and foremost (too late for this client) you need to do everything
>> to
>> make yourself look bigger. It is easier than one would think.
>>
>> Then if that still doesnt help you can do a few things such as offering
>> source code escrow as BO mentioned but it is complicated and can get
>> expensive as you have to hire a lawyer to do this sort of thing and also
>> adds to your operating expenses in time as you have to keep updating this
>> also.
>>
>> You can of course also sell the rights to the source to the company with
>> a
>> list of capable developers in case the need arises.
>>
>> Another option that David mentioned is teaming up with another DataFlex
>> developer as a backup plan. That way you can show to the client that
>> there
>> is backup available.
>>
>> Also show them how long you are in business already and possibly show
>> them
>> references of larger long term clients.
>>
>> Last but not least sometimes you may not be able to make someone happy
>> and
>> you may loose business because of it. But most times this was probably
>> business you wouldnt have been happy with anyway.
>>
>> --
>> Michael Salzlechner
>> StarZen Technologies, Inc
>> Visual DataFlex Controls, Tools and consulting
>> http://www.starzen.com
>>
>
>

Garret Mott
18-Dec-2006, 10:36 AM
Hi Jim -

What you mention is exactly why we formed the NEDC (link to our site below).
There are 6 or 7 "core" members of the group - all (very ;-) independent
developers.

Besides the fun we've had, we've found 2 major benefits: 1) We all have
backup in case that big ol' truck hits us & 2) Being able to offer another
person's skill set (or several people's skill sets) to a client is a really
big hit.

Whereabouts are you located? If you're in the northeast US, come to a
meeting! If not, maybe something along our lines would work in your area.

Garret Mott

Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com

Jim Rose
25-Dec-2006, 05:01 PM
Guys

If you were a "Certified Microsoft Professional", you could tell any client
that if the "bus hits" simply contact Microsoft for the name and location of
the nearest "certified microsoft professional" so that they can start
arranging a replacement. The client understands this.

The issue to me is not cost, (the client understands cost just as if a key
employee dies) just simply the ability to represent that we (dataflex
developers) are backed by a larger organization that has all the names and
contacts for the DAW community. This may seem TOO simple because you might
ask "Doesn't any client know that they can call DAW?". In more cases than
you might expect, the answer is NO.

I personally wish that I could tell people to go to a web site and verify
that this type of referral system exists.

Further, this is not a DAW developer problem, the problem exists for MCP,
Novell, any VB developers, basically anyone who attempts to sell a 'Custom"
application or network/server setup. It would be extremely easy for DAW to
do this and the increase in credibility would be tremendous.

As far as sharing the code with someone BB (before Bus), that would be nice,
professional, and would certainly hasten the transition AB (after Bus)
....BUT... it would not be absolutely necessary, just as VB guys or netjocks
don't share their setups BB. They know that some other VB or MCP will
understand their work and the reasons the client wants it that way and they
will carry on and get paid. BUT FIRST, THE CLIENT HAS TO CONTACT THEM !!


Jim Rose, Biloxi, Mississippi (Katrina Ground Zero)






"Larry Heiges" <lheiges@app-2-win.com> wrote in message
news:jci3o21aus8nmoodkt1d5blbkt9cg4vt82@4ax.com...
> Jim,
>
> One question would be how much you or the client is willing to spend
> time and money to back you up. There are quite a few around that would
> have some time to put into supporting others, but most don't work for
> free. The new tools will usually make it easier to see what someone
> else is doing, but the best bet for a successful backup would be to do
> something before the "truck hits". You might look into a code review
> type of arrangement with another developer so both would get some
> benefit for the time... you would get another set of eyes and someone
> else that has touched the software, and the other developer can fill
> some hours. Depending on the other developers commitments, etc., you
> may be able to introduce him/her as "my emergency backup" with more
> behind it than just a name.
>
> It has been my experience that many software houses don't have very
> wide "institutional memory" where the software is concerned. They
> will become big and add marketing, but there will still only be one or
> two programmers that have deep connections with the software.
>
> Larry Heiges
> App-2-Win Systems, Inc.
> LookFeel for Windows
> http://app-2-win.com
> LFW7sp3
> LFW11

Jim Rose
27-Dec-2006, 02:14 PM
And something else:

How many times have you done your presentation, explained all the bells and
whistles and then one of the partners/managers/owners asks, "Well, what if
you die?"

At that point all you can do is stutter and stammer about how healthy you
are and that you have backup programmers hundreds of miles away !!

This is embarrassing.

Wouldn't it be nice if you could calmly look them straight in the eye and
say "Well, why don't you simply go to Data Access Corporation's web page and
read about their 'Developer Access Program' (or whatever)."
And you can say this with the swagger of someone who is backed by a
WORLDWIDE enterprise !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Period. End of question. End of embarrassment. End of stuttering. Total
confidence !!

Jim Rose




"Larry Heiges" <lheiges@app-2-win.com> wrote in message
news:jci3o21aus8nmoodkt1d5blbkt9cg4vt82@4ax.com...
> Jim,
>
> One question would be how much you or the client is willing to spend
> time and money to back you up. There are quite a few around that would
> have some time to put into supporting others, but most don't work for
> free. The new tools will usually make it easier to see what someone
> else is doing, but the best bet for a successful backup would be to do
> something before the "truck hits". You might look into a code review
> type of arrangement with another developer so both would get some
> benefit for the time... you would get another set of eyes and someone
> else that has touched the software, and the other developer can fill
> some hours. Depending on the other developers commitments, etc., you
> may be able to introduce him/her as "my emergency backup" with more
> behind it than just a name.
>
> It has been my experience that many software houses don't have very
> wide "institutional memory" where the software is concerned. They
> will become big and add marketing, but there will still only be one or
> two programmers that have deep connections with the software.
>
> Larry Heiges
> App-2-Win Systems, Inc.
> LookFeel for Windows
> http://app-2-win.com
> LFW7sp3
> LFW11

Garret Mott
27-Dec-2006, 03:55 PM
Hi Jim -

I'll respond with some of my thoughts. I think you bring up some very good
points, however I feel the need to play devil's advocate for a bit.

I'm an MCSE (out of date & practice, but I've still got my card - so I must
be one, right? ;-). That automatically makes me an MCP (if I remember
right, you get the MCP for passing one test). Yep me & 3 bazillion others.
Therefore, I'm not sure what real value it has. OK - some will argue that
if I can pass the tests, it has little or no value, but that's another
topic...

MS has a whole separate division that handles MCP's, Solution Providers,
Partners & whatever other names they've come up with since I stopped paying
attention. A key difference - largely based on size - is that XYZ Corp (who
wants to buy my package) knows that there are those 3 bazillion other VB
developers out there & the One Man Band subject probably won't even come up.
I think it's the "Data-What"? problem we have here more than recognition of
our expertise in VDF.

I see 2 major problems with implementing the same concept for VDF:

1) Our provider (DAW) is also "in competition" with us - as they provide
consulting directly to the same customer base we work with. MS doesn't
(unless you're IBM or of similar size). Back in the days when DAW had
independent distributors this might nave been easier to implement.

2) I think we're an awfully small group to set up certification for. Not
saying it couldn't be done, just that the difference of dividing the cost
between 3 bazillion & 3 thousand could make it very expensive. Am I being
generous here? VDF License registration #'s are around 450,000. That
includes end users & goes back to DF 1.something. What is the real # of
active VDF developers anyway? Anyone know - and be willing to tell us?

So - I'm not sure if it could be done & (no offense intended!) I'm not sure
DAW is the entity for doing this. I believe it would have to be an entirely
separate organization that could be truly impartial (which would mean they'd
need to list DAW as well).

Who's got the time for doing it? Would it require dues/fees, etc? Who
would make up any tests? Establish criteria for them? I'm not keen on
telling Dennis or Sonny (for example) that they just flunked. <g>. Even
less so telling myself - a more likely scenario, I'll admit!

Another piece: How would we get word out about this? What percentage of
VDF developers use the NG's? 5? 10? I hope it's not a lot higher than
that or else we are a truly tiny group. The NEDC sent a mailing a year or
so ago & we had to send it via DAW, as they were not OK with releasing
names. I do know that many pieces were returned as "address unknown" - &
that I myself got (as I remember) 3 - under various licenses I've had over
the years.

I don't mean to be negative, just to address some of the issues I see. I'm
more than happy to discuss this further!

Regards,

Garret Mott

Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com

Larry R Pint
28-Dec-2006, 09:51 AM
To me it's less of a certification thing than just having a list available
of other DF/VDF "consultants" in an area.

It does not have to be a published list or be available to the public in any
direct way. Just a large presence on the DAW website where consultants
could sign up and a form to fill out or a e-mail address to write to or a
phone number to call for companies that are looking for a DF/VDF consultant.

This should be highlighted on the web site to make it a "big thing".

I think the consultant registration form should include years of experience
in each of the "significant" products ... primarily major release numbers.
Maybe even a sub set of those.

The danger here is the one I hit when I asked for names of other DF
consultants in Minnesota. The list they came up with had only one name ...
mine. That didn't help my case with the concerned clients at all.

I don't really know how DAW could maintain such a list without a mechanism
like a consultant registration form. Many of my licenses are under my
company names (past and present). Does that make me an "independent"
consultant or a corporate developer? In my case they know, since they deal
with me regularly (poor Mari!). But do they know all their license holders
as well as they know me?

Larry Pint
SOFT-STAR, Inc.

"Garret Mott" <Garret_at_AutoMateSoftware_dot_com> wrote in message
news:iv8galfKHHA.4124@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
> Hi Jim -
>
> I'll respond with some of my thoughts. I think you bring up some very
> good points, however I feel the need to play devil's advocate for a bit.
>
> I'm an MCSE (out of date & practice, but I've still got my card - so I
> must be one, right? ;-). That automatically makes me an MCP (if I
> remember right, you get the MCP for passing one test). Yep me & 3
> bazillion others. Therefore, I'm not sure what real value it has. OK -
> some will argue that if I can pass the tests, it has little or no value,
> but that's another topic...
>
> MS has a whole separate division that handles MCP's, Solution Providers,
> Partners & whatever other names they've come up with since I stopped
> paying attention. A key difference - largely based on size - is that XYZ
> Corp (who wants to buy my package) knows that there are those 3 bazillion
> other VB developers out there & the One Man Band subject probably won't
> even come up. I think it's the "Data-What"? problem we have here more than
> recognition of our expertise in VDF.
>
> I see 2 major problems with implementing the same concept for VDF:
>
> 1) Our provider (DAW) is also "in competition" with us - as they provide
> consulting directly to the same customer base we work with. MS doesn't
> (unless you're IBM or of similar size). Back in the days when DAW had
> independent distributors this might nave been easier to implement.
>
> 2) I think we're an awfully small group to set up certification for. Not
> saying it couldn't be done, just that the difference of dividing the cost
> between 3 bazillion & 3 thousand could make it very expensive. Am I being
> generous here? VDF License registration #'s are around 450,000. That
> includes end users & goes back to DF 1.something. What is the real # of
> active VDF developers anyway? Anyone know - and be willing to tell us?
>
> So - I'm not sure if it could be done & (no offense intended!) I'm not
> sure DAW is the entity for doing this. I believe it would have to be an
> entirely separate organization that could be truly impartial (which would
> mean they'd need to list DAW as well).
>
> Who's got the time for doing it? Would it require dues/fees, etc? Who
> would make up any tests? Establish criteria for them? I'm not keen on
> telling Dennis or Sonny (for example) that they just flunked. <g>. Even
> less so telling myself - a more likely scenario, I'll admit!
>
> Another piece: How would we get word out about this? What percentage of
> VDF developers use the NG's? 5? 10? I hope it's not a lot higher than
> that or else we are a truly tiny group. The NEDC sent a mailing a year or
> so ago & we had to send it via DAW, as they were not OK with releasing
> names. I do know that many pieces were returned as "address unknown" - &
> that I myself got (as I remember) 3 - under various licenses I've had over
> the years.
>
> I don't mean to be negative, just to address some of the issues I see.
> I'm more than happy to discuss this further!
>
> Regards,
>
> Garret Mott
>
> Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
> Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com
>
>

Garret Mott
28-Dec-2006, 10:13 AM
Hi -

I seem to remember that DAW had just such a list on their site a "few" years
back. Not sure why it went away. One thought is that it was looking
skimpy - one in Minnesota, maybe none in Wisconsin, etc. I'll guess that the
list was a lot bigger 15-20 years ago.

A difference nowadays is that remote access is a viable method of customer
support. A client with Terminal Services makes it a piece of cake & even
PCAnywhere, GoToMyPC, or some such product is entirely doable now.

The only requirement is decent speed for a connection. I've worked on
PCAnywhere with 384 DSL & it's fine. I realize this counts out a few rural
customers, but will get most. Of course you'll have some exceptions -the
biggest city in Vermont has some neighborhoods that have no broadband (no -
it's not just cows that are missing out ;-) & I know many other rural states
have similar issues.

I work with several remote customers & find that, as long as I make a point
of visiting in person at least a couple of times a year, it works fine.

So - I'd argue that location is far less important than it once was.
Convincing the customer of that is another thing...

Garret Mott

Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com

"Larry Pint" <larry.pint@ntuminc.com> wrote in message
news:je1jt%23oKHHA.1700@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
> To me it's less of a certification thing than just having a list available
> of other DF/VDF "consultants" in an area.
>
> It does not have to be a published list or be available to the public in
> any direct way. Just a large presence on the DAW website where
> consultants could sign up and a form to fill out or a e-mail address to
> write to or a phone number to call for companies that are looking for a
> DF/VDF consultant.
>
> This should be highlighted on the web site to make it a "big thing".
>
> I think the consultant registration form should include years of
> experience in each of the "significant" products ... primarily major
> release numbers. Maybe even a sub set of those.
>
> The danger here is the one I hit when I asked for names of other DF
> consultants in Minnesota. The list they came up with had only one name
> ... mine. That didn't help my case with the concerned clients at all.
>
> I don't really know how DAW could maintain such a list without a mechanism
> like a consultant registration form. Many of my licenses are under my
> company names (past and present). Does that make me an "independent"
> consultant or a corporate developer? In my case they know, since they
> deal with me regularly (poor Mari!). But do they know all their license
> holders as well as they know me?
>
> Larry Pint
> SOFT-STAR, Inc.
>
> "Garret Mott" <Garret_at_AutoMateSoftware_dot_com> wrote in message
> news:iv8galfKHHA.4124@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
>> Hi Jim -
>>
>> I'll respond with some of my thoughts. I think you bring up some very
>> good points, however I feel the need to play devil's advocate for a bit.
>>
>> I'm an MCSE (out of date & practice, but I've still got my card - so I
>> must be one, right? ;-). That automatically makes me an MCP (if I
>> remember right, you get the MCP for passing one test). Yep me & 3
>> bazillion others. Therefore, I'm not sure what real value it has. OK -
>> some will argue that if I can pass the tests, it has little or no value,
>> but that's another topic...
>>
>> MS has a whole separate division that handles MCP's, Solution Providers,
>> Partners & whatever other names they've come up with since I stopped
>> paying attention. A key difference - largely based on size - is that XYZ
>> Corp (who wants to buy my package) knows that there are those 3 bazillion
>> other VB developers out there & the One Man Band subject probably won't
>> even come up. I think it's the "Data-What"? problem we have here more
>> than recognition of our expertise in VDF.
>>
>> I see 2 major problems with implementing the same concept for VDF:
>>
>> 1) Our provider (DAW) is also "in competition" with us - as they provide
>> consulting directly to the same customer base we work with. MS doesn't
>> (unless you're IBM or of similar size). Back in the days when DAW had
>> independent distributors this might nave been easier to implement.
>>
>> 2) I think we're an awfully small group to set up certification for. Not
>> saying it couldn't be done, just that the difference of dividing the cost
>> between 3 bazillion & 3 thousand could make it very expensive. Am I
>> being generous here? VDF License registration #'s are around 450,000.
>> That includes end users & goes back to DF 1.something. What is the real
>> # of active VDF developers anyway? Anyone know - and be willing to tell
>> us?
>>
>> So - I'm not sure if it could be done & (no offense intended!) I'm not
>> sure DAW is the entity for doing this. I believe it would have to be an
>> entirely separate organization that could be truly impartial (which would
>> mean they'd need to list DAW as well).
>>
>> Who's got the time for doing it? Would it require dues/fees, etc? Who
>> would make up any tests? Establish criteria for them? I'm not keen on
>> telling Dennis or Sonny (for example) that they just flunked. <g>. Even
>> less so telling myself - a more likely scenario, I'll admit!
>>
>> Another piece: How would we get word out about this? What percentage of
>> VDF developers use the NG's? 5? 10? I hope it's not a lot higher than
>> that or else we are a truly tiny group. The NEDC sent a mailing a year
>> or so ago & we had to send it via DAW, as they were not OK with releasing
>> names. I do know that many pieces were returned as "address unknown" - &
>> that I myself got (as I remember) 3 - under various licenses I've had
>> over the years.
>>
>> I don't mean to be negative, just to address some of the issues I see.
>> I'm more than happy to discuss this further!
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Garret Mott
>>
>> Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
>> Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com
>>
>>
>
>

David Martinko
28-Dec-2006, 11:13 AM
How about opening up several more businesses all owned by you... but without
your name on it. Then you can point out that there are 3 VDF companies in
your area!!

:)

--
David Martinko
248-535-7495
Tracker Systems, Inc.
Redeemed Software
Redeemed Hosting
www.trackersys.com
www.redeemedsoftware.com
www.redeemedhosting.com

"Garret Mott" <Garret_at_AutoMateSoftware_dot_com> wrote in message
news:ECH2HLpKHHA.3804@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
Hi -

I seem to remember that DAW had just such a list on their site a "few" years
back. Not sure why it went away. One thought is that it was looking
skimpy - one in Minnesota, maybe none in Wisconsin, etc. I'll guess that the
list was a lot bigger 15-20 years ago.

A difference nowadays is that remote access is a viable method of customer
support. A client with Terminal Services makes it a piece of cake & even
PCAnywhere, GoToMyPC, or some such product is entirely doable now.

The only requirement is decent speed for a connection. I've worked on
PCAnywhere with 384 DSL & it's fine. I realize this counts out a few rural
customers, but will get most. Of course you'll have some exceptions -the
biggest city in Vermont has some neighborhoods that have no broadband (no -
it's not just cows that are missing out ;-) & I know many other rural states
have similar issues.

I work with several remote customers & find that, as long as I make a point
of visiting in person at least a couple of times a year, it works fine.

So - I'd argue that location is far less important than it once was.
Convincing the customer of that is another thing...

Garret Mott

Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com

"Larry Pint" <larry.pint@ntuminc.com> wrote in message
news:je1jt%23oKHHA.1700@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
> To me it's less of a certification thing than just having a list available
> of other DF/VDF "consultants" in an area.
>
> It does not have to be a published list or be available to the public in
> any direct way. Just a large presence on the DAW website where
> consultants could sign up and a form to fill out or a e-mail address to
> write to or a phone number to call for companies that are looking for a
> DF/VDF consultant.
>
> This should be highlighted on the web site to make it a "big thing".
>
> I think the consultant registration form should include years of
> experience in each of the "significant" products ... primarily major
> release numbers. Maybe even a sub set of those.
>
> The danger here is the one I hit when I asked for names of other DF
> consultants in Minnesota. The list they came up with had only one name
> ... mine. That didn't help my case with the concerned clients at all.
>
> I don't really know how DAW could maintain such a list without a mechanism
> like a consultant registration form. Many of my licenses are under my
> company names (past and present). Does that make me an "independent"
> consultant or a corporate developer? In my case they know, since they
> deal with me regularly (poor Mari!). But do they know all their license
> holders as well as they know me?
>
> Larry Pint
> SOFT-STAR, Inc.
>
> "Garret Mott" <Garret_at_AutoMateSoftware_dot_com> wrote in message
> news:iv8galfKHHA.4124@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
>> Hi Jim -
>>
>> I'll respond with some of my thoughts. I think you bring up some very
>> good points, however I feel the need to play devil's advocate for a bit.
>>
>> I'm an MCSE (out of date & practice, but I've still got my card - so I
>> must be one, right? ;-). That automatically makes me an MCP (if I
>> remember right, you get the MCP for passing one test). Yep me & 3
>> bazillion others. Therefore, I'm not sure what real value it has. OK -
>> some will argue that if I can pass the tests, it has little or no value,
>> but that's another topic...
>>
>> MS has a whole separate division that handles MCP's, Solution Providers,
>> Partners & whatever other names they've come up with since I stopped
>> paying attention. A key difference - largely based on size - is that XYZ
>> Corp (who wants to buy my package) knows that there are those 3 bazillion
>> other VB developers out there & the One Man Band subject probably won't
>> even come up. I think it's the "Data-What"? problem we have here more
>> than recognition of our expertise in VDF.
>>
>> I see 2 major problems with implementing the same concept for VDF:
>>
>> 1) Our provider (DAW) is also "in competition" with us - as they provide
>> consulting directly to the same customer base we work with. MS doesn't
>> (unless you're IBM or of similar size). Back in the days when DAW had
>> independent distributors this might nave been easier to implement.
>>
>> 2) I think we're an awfully small group to set up certification for. Not
>> saying it couldn't be done, just that the difference of dividing the cost
>> between 3 bazillion & 3 thousand could make it very expensive. Am I
>> being generous here? VDF License registration #'s are around 450,000.
>> That includes end users & goes back to DF 1.something. What is the real
>> # of active VDF developers anyway? Anyone know - and be willing to tell
>> us?
>>
>> So - I'm not sure if it could be done & (no offense intended!) I'm not
>> sure DAW is the entity for doing this. I believe it would have to be an
>> entirely separate organization that could be truly impartial (which would
>> mean they'd need to list DAW as well).
>>
>> Who's got the time for doing it? Would it require dues/fees, etc? Who
>> would make up any tests? Establish criteria for them? I'm not keen on
>> telling Dennis or Sonny (for example) that they just flunked. <g>. Even
>> less so telling myself - a more likely scenario, I'll admit!
>>
>> Another piece: How would we get word out about this? What percentage of
>> VDF developers use the NG's? 5? 10? I hope it's not a lot higher than
>> that or else we are a truly tiny group. The NEDC sent a mailing a year
>> or so ago & we had to send it via DAW, as they were not OK with releasing
>> names. I do know that many pieces were returned as "address unknown" - &
>> that I myself got (as I remember) 3 - under various licenses I've had
>> over the years.
>>
>> I don't mean to be negative, just to address some of the issues I see.
>> I'm more than happy to discuss this further!
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Garret Mott
>>
>> Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
>> Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com
>>
>>
>
>

Peter A Donovan
11-Jan-2007, 04:16 PM
Dear Jim,
Let me extend the same invitation to you that we have with others:

The NEDC does not accept members outside our area, but if you make an
arrangement with ANY nedc member to back you up, they in turn have the total
NEDC to back them up for you.
May I suggest:
Check out our support page for membership and see if you can't strike up a
relationship with one. We would directly bill your customer a few hours
work and provide backup of all current source on our FTP site to become
familiar with your work.

--
Regards,
Peter
Applause Software, http://www.ApplauseSoftware.Com
Northeast DataFlex Consortium Member: www.NEDataFlex.Com
"Jim Rose" <jerosejr@i55.com> wrote in message
news:M0Lovu7HHHA.3804@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
> Gentlemen
> I am a dinosaur from 2.3b (since 1985) and within the last 60 days have
> acquired vdf12. I am also in the "one man band"
>
> Of everything that I've read, I must ask:
>
> Where is DataAccess Corp in all of this?
>
> It is a direct benefit to DAC that we all represent DAC in a professional
> and successful manner.
> It seems to me that having the ability to advertise your software as
> "Backed by DAW" would be a big selling point, just like being a "Microsoft
> Certified Professional" or "Novell Certified". These companies hand these
> out and if one of them screws up, Microsoft and Novell don't get screwed
> and
> sued.
>
> I'm not saying that DAW needs a copy of every code written and sold or
> even
> that they need to represent that THEY will assume the duties if YOU get
> hit
> by the bus, but they could surely create something (even if it's just a
> marketing ploy) that we could point our customers to and show a
> support/backup/babysitter service if the bus comes.
>
> Jim Rose
>
>
>
> "StarZen Technologies" <info@starzen.com> wrote in message
> news:C2F8E58C1F7D4A4CB525AC96D503B58E0D1340@bunyip .abacus-labs.com...
>> Archie
>>
>> first and foremost (too late for this client) you need to do everything
>> to
>> make yourself look bigger. It is easier than one would think.
>>
>> Then if that still doesnt help you can do a few things such as offering
>> source code escrow as BO mentioned but it is complicated and can get
>> expensive as you have to hire a lawyer to do this sort of thing and also
>> adds to your operating expenses in time as you have to keep updating this
>> also.
>>
>> You can of course also sell the rights to the source to the company with
>> a
>> list of capable developers in case the need arises.
>>
>> Another option that David mentioned is teaming up with another DataFlex
>> developer as a backup plan. That way you can show to the client that
>> there
>> is backup available.
>>
>> Also show them how long you are in business already and possibly show
>> them
>> references of larger long term clients.
>>
>> Last but not least sometimes you may not be able to make someone happy
>> and
>> you may loose business because of it. But most times this was probably
>> business you wouldnt have been happy with anyway.
>>
>> --
>> Michael Salzlechner
>> StarZen Technologies, Inc
>> Visual DataFlex Controls, Tools and consulting
>> http://www.starzen.com
>>
>
>

Peter A Donovan
11-Jan-2007, 04:17 PM
PS: Dial me up and I'll tell you a story or 2.
--
Regards,
Peter
Applause Software, http://www.ApplauseSoftware.Com
Northeast DataFlex Consortium Member: www.NEDataFlex.Com


"Peter A Donovan" <SonataSoftwareUS@Yahoo.Com> wrote in message
news:ihAanWcNHHA.3432@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
> Dear Jim,
> Let me extend the same invitation to you that we have with others:
>
> The NEDC does not accept members outside our area, but if you make an
> arrangement with ANY nedc member to back you up, they in turn have the
> total NEDC to back them up for you.
> May I suggest:
> Check out our support page for membership and see if you can't strike up a
> relationship with one. We would directly bill your customer a few hours
> work and provide backup of all current source on our FTP site to become
> familiar with your work.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Peter
> Applause Software, http://www.ApplauseSoftware.Com
> Northeast DataFlex Consortium Member: www.NEDataFlex.Com
> "Jim Rose" <jerosejr@i55.com> wrote in message
> news:M0Lovu7HHHA.3804@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
>> Gentlemen
>> I am a dinosaur from 2.3b (since 1985) and within the last 60 days have
>> acquired vdf12. I am also in the "one man band"
>>
>> Of everything that I've read, I must ask:
>>
>> Where is DataAccess Corp in all of this?
>>
>> It is a direct benefit to DAC that we all represent DAC in a professional
>> and successful manner.
>> It seems to me that having the ability to advertise your software as
>> "Backed by DAW" would be a big selling point, just like being a
>> "Microsoft
>> Certified Professional" or "Novell Certified". These companies hand these
>> out and if one of them screws up, Microsoft and Novell don't get screwed
>> and
>> sued.
>>
>> I'm not saying that DAW needs a copy of every code written and sold or
>> even
>> that they need to represent that THEY will assume the duties if YOU get
>> hit
>> by the bus, but they could surely create something (even if it's just a
>> marketing ploy) that we could point our customers to and show a
>> support/backup/babysitter service if the bus comes.
>>
>> Jim Rose
>>
>>
>>
>> "StarZen Technologies" <info@starzen.com> wrote in message
>> news:C2F8E58C1F7D4A4CB525AC96D503B58E0D1340@bunyip .abacus-labs.com...
>>> Archie
>>>
>>> first and foremost (too late for this client) you need to do everything
>>> to
>>> make yourself look bigger. It is easier than one would think.
>>>
>>> Then if that still doesnt help you can do a few things such as offering
>>> source code escrow as BO mentioned but it is complicated and can get
>>> expensive as you have to hire a lawyer to do this sort of thing and also
>>> adds to your operating expenses in time as you have to keep updating
>>> this
>>> also.
>>>
>>> You can of course also sell the rights to the source to the company with
>>> a
>>> list of capable developers in case the need arises.
>>>
>>> Another option that David mentioned is teaming up with another DataFlex
>>> developer as a backup plan. That way you can show to the client that
>>> there
>>> is backup available.
>>>
>>> Also show them how long you are in business already and possibly show
>>> them
>>> references of larger long term clients.
>>>
>>> Last but not least sometimes you may not be able to make someone happy
>>> and
>>> you may loose business because of it. But most times this was probably
>>> business you wouldnt have been happy with anyway.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Salzlechner
>>> StarZen Technologies, Inc
>>> Visual DataFlex Controls, Tools and consulting
>>> http://www.starzen.com
>>>
>>
>>
>
>