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View Full Version : Vdf12 - Relative anchor request - Example.jpg (0/1)



Peter.Tawse
8-Dec-2005, 06:42 PM
Hi All

With the development focus in Vdf now going to Vdf12, how
about some RELATIVE ANCHOR ability.

The current anchors are fine when there's only 1 or 2 Entry_Item
type objects across a View, but fails miserably when there are
more than 2 horizontal objects.

Attached / following is a sample view to display what I mean

The outer objects tend to "cover" any intermediate ones
(I believe - havent done a lot in this area with Vdf11 yet),
and the intermediate ones certainly do NOT resize in any
way.

Something like "peLeftRelativeAnchor", "peRightRelativeAnchor"
would be mighty - if you can get it to work correctly. Of course,
"Top" & "Bottom" too -:)

What do you all say re this - I'd appreciate some feedback before
submitting to DAW next week.


Regards

Peter Tawse
Microbase Software
Melbourne, Australia
Ph: +61 3 9563-9100
Fax: +61 3 9563-9477
ptawse@internode.on.net

Bob Worsley
9-Dec-2005, 08:26 AM
Got my vote, as you say, the current methodology only goes so far and does
look/work kludgy on a complicated screen.
Bob

"Peter Tawse" <ptawse@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:1kghp15tpc7mtu487koenr44n12fkimqtj@4ax.com...
> Hi All
>
> With the development focus in Vdf now going to Vdf12, how
> about some RELATIVE ANCHOR ability.
>
> The current anchors are fine when there's only 1 or 2 Entry_Item
> type objects across a View, but fails miserably when there are
> more than 2 horizontal objects.
>
> Attached / following is a sample view to display what I mean
>
> The outer objects tend to "cover" any intermediate ones
> (I believe - havent done a lot in this area with Vdf11 yet),
> and the intermediate ones certainly do NOT resize in any
> way.
>
> Something like "peLeftRelativeAnchor", "peRightRelativeAnchor"
> would be mighty - if you can get it to work correctly. Of course,
> "Top" & "Bottom" too -:)
>
> What do you all say re this - I'd appreciate some feedback before
> submitting to DAW next week.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Peter Tawse
> Microbase Software
> Melbourne, Australia
> Ph: +61 3 9563-9100
> Fax: +61 3 9563-9477
> ptawse@internode.on.net

Chris Spencer
9-Dec-2005, 02:05 PM
I would not want DAW resources spent on this.
There are some views that lend themselves to being resizable and others just
don't. The view in question here being one that I would not allow to be
resizable as I do not see any value in doing so
I think the anchors as they are are fine.

Chris Spencer
TUFware Systems

"Peter Tawse" <ptawse@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:1kghp15tpc7mtu487koenr44n12fkimqtj@4ax.com...
> Hi All
>
> With the development focus in Vdf now going to Vdf12, how
> about some RELATIVE ANCHOR ability.
>
> The current anchors are fine when there's only 1 or 2 Entry_Item
> type objects across a View, but fails miserably when there are
> more than 2 horizontal objects.
>
> Attached / following is a sample view to display what I mean
>
> The outer objects tend to "cover" any intermediate ones
> (I believe - havent done a lot in this area with Vdf11 yet),
> and the intermediate ones certainly do NOT resize in any
> way.
>
> Something like "peLeftRelativeAnchor", "peRightRelativeAnchor"
> would be mighty - if you can get it to work correctly. Of course,
> "Top" & "Bottom" too -:)
>
> What do you all say re this - I'd appreciate some feedback before
> submitting to DAW next week.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Peter Tawse
> Microbase Software
> Melbourne, Australia
> Ph: +61 3 9563-9100
> Fax: +61 3 9563-9477
> ptawse@internode.on.net

wila
9-Dec-2005, 02:25 PM
Chris Spencer wrote:
> I would not want DAW resources spent on this.
> There are some views that lend themselves to being resizable and others just
> don't. The view in question here being one that I would not allow to be
> resizable as I do not see any value in doing so
> I think the anchors as they are are fine.

[wil] As usual i concur with you Chris.
Besides that it is possible to add your own resizing logic if someone
wants to do something special.
This is precisely why DAC can't automate this, it's special and needs to
be treated like that.

Just look into the OnResize event.
More specific details can be found in the "Mastering Visual DataFlex"
book from Starzen.

--
Wil

>
> Chris Spencer
> TUFware Systems
>
> "Peter Tawse" <ptawse@internode.on.net> wrote in message
> news:1kghp15tpc7mtu487koenr44n12fkimqtj@4ax.com...
>
>>Hi All
>>
>>With the development focus in Vdf now going to Vdf12, how
>>about some RELATIVE ANCHOR ability.
>>
>>The current anchors are fine when there's only 1 or 2 Entry_Item
>>type objects across a View, but fails miserably when there are
>>more than 2 horizontal objects.
>>
>>Attached / following is a sample view to display what I mean
>>
>>The outer objects tend to "cover" any intermediate ones
>>(I believe - havent done a lot in this area with Vdf11 yet),
>>and the intermediate ones certainly do NOT resize in any
>>way.
>>
>>Something like "peLeftRelativeAnchor", "peRightRelativeAnchor"
>>would be mighty - if you can get it to work correctly. Of course,
>>"Top" & "Bottom" too -:)
>>
>>What do you all say re this - I'd appreciate some feedback before
>>submitting to DAW next week.
>>
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>Peter Tawse
>>Microbase Software
>>Melbourne, Australia
>>Ph: +61 3 9563-9100
>>Fax: +61 3 9563-9477
>>ptawse@internode.on.net
>
>
>

Peter.Tawse
10-Dec-2005, 04:46 AM
Again !

To Chris & Wil
Thanks for the input, but - dare I say it - the majority of
us (other) Vdf developers probably dont know how to
implement what you suggest, and we cannot keep
pestering the like's of you two 'guru's" for solutions.

To DAW - the solution provided to date is only HALF the
solution.

My question is - can you provide the COMPLETE solution
at a reasonable "time" cost, and - if so - will it be done ?

An answer to this WOULD be apprciated


Regards

Peter Tawse
Microbase Software
Melbourne, Australia
Ph: +61 3 9563-9100
Fax: +61 3 9563-9477
ptawse@internode.on.net

Steven Wong
11-Dec-2005, 08:55 PM
Just my 2c.

In 1985, programming in the Intuition Environment on my Amiga, I had
relative anchors that worked perfectly and were simple to use, any number of
controls or complicated design resizing perfectly.

In 2005 I can't do the same thing in vdf 11! :o

Boggles the mind.

Steve.

"Peter Tawse" <ptawse@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:1kghp15tpc7mtu487koenr44n12fkimqtj@4ax.com...
> Hi All
>
> With the development focus in Vdf now going to Vdf12, how
> about some RELATIVE ANCHOR ability.
>
> The current anchors are fine when there's only 1 or 2 Entry_Item
> type objects across a View, but fails miserably when there are
> more than 2 horizontal objects.
>
> Attached / following is a sample view to display what I mean
>
> The outer objects tend to "cover" any intermediate ones
> (I believe - havent done a lot in this area with Vdf11 yet),
> and the intermediate ones certainly do NOT resize in any
> way.
>
> Something like "peLeftRelativeAnchor", "peRightRelativeAnchor"
> would be mighty - if you can get it to work correctly. Of course,
> "Top" & "Bottom" too -:)
>
> What do you all say re this - I'd appreciate some feedback before
> submitting to DAW next week.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Peter Tawse
> Microbase Software
> Melbourne, Australia
> Ph: +61 3 9563-9100
> Fax: +61 3 9563-9477
> ptawse@internode.on.net

Marco
12-Dec-2005, 05:47 PM
Hi All,

I've worked with a product in the early visual days that was extremely
versitile in resizing. Every side of a visual object can have a 'rope',
a 'bar' and a 'string' attached to any other visual object.
A separate view of the objects showed how the objects are bound together.

Eg. If you have 5 buttons and you always want them to be equal between
left and right border, you have 6 strings in between all of them and the
border. If you want to stretch the buttons, you would use ropes. If you
wanted a minimum distance you would place eg a stick and a spring where
the stick is only the length of the minimal distance.

Now where am I going....
I believe this is also very doable in VDF. All the stuff you need to
know to do this was already discussed and published in 1997. Many
developers believe that DAW should be providing us with stuff that we
cannot do ourselves. Many others believe they want anyting out of the box.
I think, that making universal resizing packages work, is quite a bit of
work and definately lot of testing. I believe that this would be an
excellent open source project, as I do not see DAW spending more time on
this. They have provided the basics, now it is up to us.

Cheers,
Marco



Steven Wong wrote:
> Just my 2c.
>
> In 1985, programming in the Intuition Environment on my Amiga, I had
> relative anchors that worked perfectly and were simple to use, any number of
> controls or complicated design resizing perfectly.
>
> In 2005 I can't do the same thing in vdf 11! :o
>
> Boggles the mind.
>
> Steve.
>
> "Peter Tawse" <ptawse@internode.on.net> wrote in message
> news:1kghp15tpc7mtu487koenr44n12fkimqtj@4ax.com...
>
>>Hi All
>>
>>With the development focus in Vdf now going to Vdf12, how
>>about some RELATIVE ANCHOR ability.
>>
>>The current anchors are fine when there's only 1 or 2 Entry_Item
>>type objects across a View, but fails miserably when there are
>>more than 2 horizontal objects.
>>
>>Attached / following is a sample view to display what I mean
>>
>>The outer objects tend to "cover" any intermediate ones
>>(I believe - havent done a lot in this area with Vdf11 yet),
>> and the intermediate ones certainly do NOT resize in any
>>way.
>>
>>Something like "peLeftRelativeAnchor", "peRightRelativeAnchor"
>>would be mighty - if you can get it to work correctly. Of course,
>>"Top" & "Bottom" too -:)
>>
>>What do you all say re this - I'd appreciate some feedback before
>>submitting to DAW next week.
>>
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>Peter Tawse
>>Microbase Software
>>Melbourne, Australia
>>Ph: +61 3 9563-9100
>>Fax: +61 3 9563-9477
>>ptawse@internode.on.net
>
>
>

Peter.Tawse
12-Dec-2005, 10:48 PM
Marco

I have no problem with making this idea an "Open Source"
project. It's always better to control our own destiny if we can !

My problem is that I really dont know where to START !

Since you've done some of this before, perhaps you might
care to "get the ball rolling" with a brief example of some
Relative-resizing code. Just 1 resizable view, with say
4 resizable forms in it would appear to be enuf to start with.

As I see it, the horizontal resizing capability would appear
to be the most desirable - at this stage

Then it's up to those who are interested to develop it on
from there

What say you ?


Regards

Peter Tawse
Microbase Software
Melbourne, Australia
Ph: +61 3 9563-9100
Fax: +61 3 9563-9477
ptawse@internode.on.net

Marco
13-Dec-2005, 03:10 AM
Peter,

I do not have a current project where this is needed. Therefore although
I'm quite happy to validate and test some code, I can not and will not
pull this project.

I suggest you read chapter 10 in Mastering Visual DataFlex. It is only
13 pages but gives you all you need to start... (If you don't have the
book, Tom sells it for a very special price)

Contact Wil van Antwerpen if you are serious about making your efforts
open source. Then invite others to join.

Good luck, and looking forward to your presentation at the Corroboree
with the final product ;)

Cheers,
Marco

ps;
Did some searches on the Web and found/remembered the product name;
Galaxy Spring Manager;
The hallmark of Galaxy's GUI development system is its intelligent
geometry management, which allows for smarter interfaces and is based on
the concepts of springs and struts . Springs and struts, which in are a
type of "connection," are logical entities that define orientation
physics so that on-screen objects reposition themselves appropriately
when the screen is resized or when an application designed on one
platform is run on another platform.

During the development of the GUI portion of your application, when you
place objects such as buttons or scroll bars on-screen, you can define a
connection between the edge of an object and the edge of the frame or
between opposite edges of an object. Connections between an object and
the frame control the object's position. Connections between opposite
edges of an object control the object's size.

Each of the four connection types -- struts, springs, spring/strut, and
natural length -- has a specific behavior. A strut specifies a fixed
value. If you put a strut between opposite edges of, say, a button, the
button size remains fixed regardless of what happens on the screen. A
spring expands and contracts as the user resizes the window, thus
allowing objects to move while maintaining relative positioning. A
spring/strut is a spring with a fixed minimum length. The natural-length
connection enables an object to resize itself based on its contents.
(For example, if you change the font size in a button at run time, the
button resizes itself appropriately.)



Peter Tawse wrote:
> Marco
>
> I have no problem with making this idea an "Open Source"
> project. It's always better to control our own destiny if we can !
>
> My problem is that I really dont know where to START !
>
> Since you've done some of this before, perhaps you might
> care to "get the ball rolling" with a brief example of some
> Relative-resizing code. Just 1 resizable view, with say
> 4 resizable forms in it would appear to be enuf to start with.
>
> As I see it, the horizontal resizing capability would appear
> to be the most desirable - at this stage
>
> Then it's up to those who are interested to develop it on
> from there
>
> What say you ?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Peter Tawse
> Microbase Software
> Melbourne, Australia
> Ph: +61 3 9563-9100
> Fax: +61 3 9563-9477
> ptawse@internode.on.net

phvwijk
14-Dec-2005, 11:21 AM
Steven,

Dataflex for windows had a setting which allowed resizing of all controls in
a view including the font size.
Think it was called map_ratio.
But it looked ........

Peter H. van Wijk
X-Organize Consultancy N.V.

"Steven Wong" <steve@triumph-accounting.com> wrote in message
news:FAGps7r$FHA.1632@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
> Just my 2c.
>
> In 1985, programming in the Intuition Environment on my Amiga, I had
> relative anchors that worked perfectly and were simple to use, any number
> of
> controls or complicated design resizing perfectly.
>
> In 2005 I can't do the same thing in vdf 11! :o
>
> Boggles the mind.
>
> Steve.
>
> "Peter Tawse" <ptawse@internode.on.net> wrote in message
> news:1kghp15tpc7mtu487koenr44n12fkimqtj@4ax.com...
>> Hi All
>>
>> With the development focus in Vdf now going to Vdf12, how
>> about some RELATIVE ANCHOR ability.
>>
>> The current anchors are fine when there's only 1 or 2 Entry_Item
>> type objects across a View, but fails miserably when there are
>> more than 2 horizontal objects.
>>
>> Attached / following is a sample view to display what I mean
>>
>> The outer objects tend to "cover" any intermediate ones
>> (I believe - havent done a lot in this area with Vdf11 yet),
>> and the intermediate ones certainly do NOT resize in any
>> way.
>>
>> Something like "peLeftRelativeAnchor", "peRightRelativeAnchor"
>> would be mighty - if you can get it to work correctly. Of course,
>> "Top" & "Bottom" too -:)
>>
>> What do you all say re this - I'd appreciate some feedback before
>> submitting to DAW next week.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Peter Tawse
>> Microbase Software
>> Melbourne, Australia
>> Ph: +61 3 9563-9100
>> Fax: +61 3 9563-9477
>> ptawse@internode.on.net
>
>

phvwijk
14-Dec-2005, 07:41 PM
Peter,

Class building is not so hard. First there needs to be the urge to have a
certain functionality. If not realy needed, do not start with it.

Then just writing out what you want. Make a small sample with plain straight
forward coding. Maybe with a button to get what you want and then slowly
fill in the gabs to make it work. Class building is mostly having focus and
keep going.
When it is working you start to simplify the code and then make it more
abstract and general. You can stop anywhere where you want when you have the
functionality you want.
Making a full class for all programmers is way more difficult. Then you have
to think of all kind of stuff you do not need yourself and because of that
you will not think of to program in.

So just take some time and start and on the way you will find step by step
the solution.

Peter H. van Wijk
X-Organize Consultancy N.V.

"Peter Tawse" <ptawse@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:iogsp1dh4q8tg46s1gc226ossdhkim5r58@4ax.com...
> Marco
>
> I have no problem with making this idea an "Open Source"
> project. It's always better to control our own destiny if we can !
>
> My problem is that I really dont know where to START !
>
> Since you've done some of this before, perhaps you might
> care to "get the ball rolling" with a brief example of some
> Relative-resizing code. Just 1 resizable view, with say
> 4 resizable forms in it would appear to be enuf to start with.
>
> As I see it, the horizontal resizing capability would appear
> to be the most desirable - at this stage
>
> Then it's up to those who are interested to develop it on
> from there
>
> What say you ?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Peter Tawse
> Microbase Software
> Melbourne, Australia
> Ph: +61 3 9563-9100
> Fax: +61 3 9563-9477
> ptawse@internode.on.net