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Stephen W. Meeley
26-Jul-2005, 04:47 PM
Torkild,

I think one of the things Chris was wondering about is that there
doesn't seem to be a drag-and-drop visual designer when using Eclipse
and the Visual DataFlex plug-in. In that regard, using Eclipse would be
more like using Multiedit (but better, of course ;-) ) as a Studio
replacement. Is that correct?

Best regards,

-SWM-


-----Original Message-----
From: Torkild U. Resheim [mailto:torkildr@resheim.no]
Posted At: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 5:15 PM
Posted To: product-direction
Conversation: DataFlex plug in for Eclipse?
Subject: Re: DataFlex plug in for Eclipse?


Chris Spencer wrote:

> Marco
> What about the GUI stuff that the Studio does (design a view etc)
It may be a part of the 2.0 release.

> Is the plugin a matter of say throwing away Multiedit and using
> eclipse as the editor I am a bit vague on what the tool does for a VDF

> developer
>
> Chris Spencer
> TUFware Systems
>
[snip]

The plugin is a collection of editors, views and a metadata model
representing all the VDF projects in the workspace. Take a look at this
article: http://resheim.no/vdf/articles/model

Regards,
Torkild.

Torkild U. Resheim
26-Jul-2005, 05:17 PM
Stephen Meeley wrote:

> Torkild,
>
> I think one of the things Chris was wondering about is that there
> doesn't seem to be a drag-and-drop visual designer when using Eclipse
> and the Visual DataFlex plug-in. In that regard, using Eclipse would be
> more like using Multiedit (but better, of course ;-) ) as a Studio
> replacement. Is that correct?
Yes. However there is a GUI designer framework in Eclipse (GEF/VE) which
makes implementation of a VDF GUI designer (or any other graphical
designer) much easier. I've tried it out and it looks like it would be
possible to do so in a fair amount of time. This has a very low priority
though.

The comparison with MultiEdit is fair. The single most important feature of
the plugin is the metadata model. This enables you to get access to useful
information directly in the editor. Point on a class name, and you get the
comments for that as a tooltip, the same goes for most other keywords,
database field names, indices, etc. You also get access to this information
in various other ways trough different views.

Another big thing is that it's implemented in Eclipse. This gives you
amongst other things; CVS support, editor history, bookmarks, a good UI and
much more. Not to mention all the other plugins available.

My biggest concern right now is to make the parser understand all (or at
least most) character mode code. I guess around 90% is already in. Pure VDF
code (as per specification) is already in. And to make full use of the
metadata generated by the parser. That would include a class browser (due
very soon), a class diagram, a database relationship diagram and more in a
similar fashion. I also want the parser to do more code validation. Syntax
checks are already handled, but I'd like it to i.e. verify a SEND, making
sure that the method called actually exists.

The main VDF system we're working on at Emma EDB takes around one hour to
compile, so having the checks performed while typing or saving the file is
a real time saver. I think many more are in the same situation.
>
> Best regards,
>
> -SWM-
>
[snip]

And the same to you Stephen :-)

Torkild.

Marco
26-Jul-2005, 07:07 PM
Stephen,

Sorry, I did not want to confuse developers. Indeed the visual design
as also stated by Torkild is not available (yet). And for quick UI
oriented apps, the Studio is definately the way to go.

The reason I think that it is worth looking into, as it is besides a
very good 'editor on steroids', one environment in which you can
develop *any* code.

What I mean is eg for a developer like me, that develops:
VDF code
WebApp Df Code
Asp
CSS
JavaScript
DataFlex 4 Linux
Stored Procedures

An have all of these in under source code control, it makes my live
soooooo much easier. The times that I use the wrong key strokes when
switching between:
VDf Studio
Frontpage
Topstyle
MultiEdit
Aqua Data Studio

and more, is all 'fixed'. Not to mention the ease on the eyes, the
compile option for all, the 'validate code as you type' etc etc etc.

For projects like WebApp, it is extremely handy as you often work on
WO, ASP (html) and CSS at the same time. Besides this there is no GUI
for WebApp other than the HTML, so very useful .

For Character Mode, it is also very cool. Suddenly we are looking at
the possibility of having an outline of the CM code, source code
checking as you type and perhaps even remote compiling!

Anyway,
I just wanted to share my enthusiasm.

Cheers,
Marco

Hendrik van Niekerk
27-Jul-2005, 09:25 AM
Maybe someone could demonstrate this "handy" little tool at the next
MMISL meeting in October? Anyone interested in doing so?


Hendrik van Niekerk

Marco Kuipers wrote:
> Stephen,
>
> Sorry, I did not want to confuse developers. Indeed the visual design
> as also stated by Torkild is not available (yet). And for quick UI
> oriented apps, the Studio is definately the way to go.
>
> The reason I think that it is worth looking into, as it is besides a
> very good 'editor on steroids', one environment in which you can
> develop *any* code.
>
> What I mean is eg for a developer like me, that develops:
> VDF code
> WebApp Df Code
> Asp
> CSS
> JavaScript
> DataFlex 4 Linux
> Stored Procedures
>
> An have all of these in under source code control, it makes my live
> soooooo much easier. The times that I use the wrong key strokes when
> switching between:
> VDf Studio
> Frontpage
> Topstyle
> MultiEdit
> Aqua Data Studio
>
> and more, is all 'fixed'. Not to mention the ease on the eyes, the
> compile option for all, the 'validate code as you type' etc etc etc.
>
> For projects like WebApp, it is extremely handy as you often work on
> WO, ASP (html) and CSS at the same time. Besides this there is no GUI
> for WebApp other than the HTML, so very useful .
>
> For Character Mode, it is also very cool. Suddenly we are looking at
> the possibility of having an outline of the CM code, source code
> checking as you type and perhaps even remote compiling!
>
> Anyway,
> I just wanted to share my enthusiasm.
>
> Cheers,
> Marco

Mark Powers
28-Jul-2005, 11:55 AM
Hendrik - Great ideal!
Mark

Hendrik van Niekerk wrote:
> Maybe someone could demonstrate this "handy" little tool at the next
> MMISL meeting in October? Anyone interested in doing so?
>
>
> Hendrik van Niekerk
>
> Marco Kuipers wrote:
>
>> Stephen,
>>
>> Sorry, I did not want to confuse developers. Indeed the visual design
>> as also stated by Torkild is not available (yet). And for quick UI
>> oriented apps, the Studio is definately the way to go.
>>
>> The reason I think that it is worth looking into, as it is besides a
>> very good 'editor on steroids', one environment in which you can
>> develop *any* code.
>>
>> What I mean is eg for a developer like me, that develops:
>> VDF code
>> WebApp Df Code
>> Asp
>> CSS
>> JavaScript
>> DataFlex 4 Linux
>> Stored Procedures
>>
>> An have all of these in under source code control, it makes my live
>> soooooo much easier. The times that I use the wrong key strokes when
>> switching between:
>> VDf Studio
>> Frontpage
>> Topstyle
>> MultiEdit
>> Aqua Data Studio
>>
>> and more, is all 'fixed'. Not to mention the ease on the eyes, the
>> compile option for all, the 'validate code as you type' etc etc etc.
>>
>> For projects like WebApp, it is extremely handy as you often work on
>> WO, ASP (html) and CSS at the same time. Besides this there is no GUI
>> for WebApp other than the HTML, so very useful .
>>
>> For Character Mode, it is also very cool. Suddenly we are looking at
>> the possibility of having an outline of the CM code, source code
>> checking as you type and perhaps even remote compiling!
>> Anyway,
>> I just wanted to share my enthusiasm.
>> Cheers,
>> Marco

Torkild U. Resheim
28-Jul-2005, 02:18 PM
Hendrik van Niekerk wrote:

> Maybe someone could demonstrate this "handy" little tool at the next
> MMISL meeting in October? Anyone interested in doing so?
I'd be happy to provide the software along with needed help to anyone
wanting to take on this task. :-)
>
>
> Hendrik van Niekerk
>
The details are not ironed out yet, but I will probably hold a presentation
at SCANDUC in Gothenburg for those of you interested.

Regards,
Torkild.

Dennis Piccioni
3-Aug-2005, 03:55 PM
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 00:17:58 +0200, "Torkild U. Resheim"
<torkildr@resheim.no> wrote:

>The main VDF system we're working on at Emma EDB takes around one hour to
>compile, so having the checks performed while typing or saving the file is
>a real time saver. I think many more are in the same situation.
>

Around one hour? Wow! Is this on a current computer and using a
current revision of Visual DataFlex? I'm asking because I've seen some
pretty big programs, but they don't take anywhere near an hour to
compile. The only time I have seen this was back before we fixed some
compiler issues that were causing debug compiles to take that long for
one customer in particular, but those were fixed several years ago.

Regards,
Dennis

Dennis Piccioni
Data Access Worldwide
http://www.DataAccess.com/support

Torkild U. Resheim
4-Aug-2005, 02:47 AM
Dennis Piccioni wrote:

> On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 00:17:58 +0200, "Torkild U. Resheim"
> <torkildr@resheim.no> wrote:
>
>>The main VDF system we're working on at Emma EDB takes around one hour to
>>compile, so having the checks performed while typing or saving the file is
>>a real time saver. I think many more are in the same situation.
>>
>
> Around one hour? Wow! Is this on a current computer and using a
> current revision of Visual DataFlex? I'm asking because I've seen some
> pretty big programs, but they don't take anywhere near an hour to
> compile. The only time I have seen this was back before we fixed some
> compiler issues that were causing debug compiles to take that long for
> one customer in particular, but those were fixed several years ago.
>
> Regards,
> Dennis
Hi Dennis,

Yes, the computer is fairly new and we're compiling under VDF9. I was a bit
sloppy saying that the compilation took around one hour. We have a
automated/web controlled compilation system where the compilation itself
(with dfcomp) does not take more than around 40 minutes. The rest is
automatic building of the CFG file, CVS logs, Bugzilla reports, etc. Even
the splash screen is automatically created using XML+XSL -> SVG -> BMP.

>
> Dennis Piccioni
> Data Access Worldwide
> http://www.DataAccess.com/support

Regards,
Torkild

Dennis Piccioni
4-Aug-2005, 08:01 AM
On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 09:47:21 +0200, "Torkild U. Resheim"
<torkildr@resheim.no> wrote:

>Hi Dennis,
>
>Yes, the computer is fairly new and we're compiling under VDF9. I was a bit
>sloppy saying that the compilation took around one hour. We have a
>automated/web controlled compilation system where the compilation itself
>(with dfcomp) does not take more than around 40 minutes. The rest is
>automatic building of the CFG file, CVS logs, Bugzilla reports, etc. Even
>the splash screen is automatically created using XML+XSL -> SVG -> BMP.
>
>>
>> Dennis Piccioni
>> Data Access Worldwide
>> http://www.DataAccess.com/support
>
>Regards,
>Torkild

Nice! Would you mind sharing how big the EXE is and how many total
compiled lines there are (in the .PRN)?

Regards,
Dennis

Dennis Piccioni
Data Access Worldwide
http://www.DataAccess.com/support

Torkild U. Resheim
4-Aug-2005, 02:05 PM
Dennis Piccioni wrote:

> On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 09:47:21 +0200, "Torkild U. Resheim"
> <torkildr@resheim.no> wrote:
>
>>Hi Dennis,
>>
>>Yes, the computer is fairly new and we're compiling under VDF9. I was a
>>bit sloppy saying that the compilation took around one hour. We have a
>>automated/web controlled compilation system where the compilation itself
>>(with dfcomp) does not take more than around 40 minutes. The rest is
>>automatic building of the CFG file, CVS logs, Bugzilla reports, etc. Even
>>the splash screen is automatically created using XML+XSL -> SVG -> BMP.
>>
>>>
>>> Dennis Piccioni
>>> Data Access Worldwide
>>> http://www.DataAccess.com/support
>>
>>Regards,
>>Torkild
>
> Nice! Would you mind sharing how big the EXE is and how many total
> compiled lines there are (in the .PRN)?
Hi Dennis,

Sure, I don't have all the data here though. There are 7-8 applications
compiled using more or less the same codebase. Most of these consist of
our base package and a few views and datadictionaries. The largest
application's executable weighs in at 22MB and the last line number in the
PRN file says 474654. According to StatCVS-XML, the entire project is at
around 1.2 million lines of code.

[snip]

Regards,
Torkild