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Marco
28-Dec-2006, 06:51 PM
Hi All,

It seems to me that although everybody on the newsgroup are very
competent developers, we all have issues with the client install.

I think it all revolves around the following. A typical app with us is:
- VDF Runtime
- VDF client registration code
- SQL Connectivity kit
- SQL Connectivity kit code
- SQL Client (DB2 client)
- SQL Client connection settings to host
- Own application
- RDC runtime
- Several Active X components
- Active X registrations

If these are done the only by DAW legally allowed way (that is not pack
into one setup.exe), it takes even the fastest LAN Operation support guy
10 minutes per PC!!!. if there are 20 PC's that is almost half a days
work... For a client self install... you just wouldn't let them...

Then there are upgrades;
- Check if VDF version x is installed, if not, install it,
- Check if ......

All in all, for a LAN Operations Guy, his/her worst nightmare. So what
they do is create setup.exe's without realizing that this violates the
licence. When they then stuff up, it is not their fault, nope, we are
the ones they come to and complain it does not work (and don't tell us
that they packed it in one, and that was the cause...)

Anyway, where am I going with this...

I really would like to be able to have a smooth install of all of the
above with one interface.

My dream is the following:
In the studio we have a 'Build installer' option. Page 1 of the wizard
would show a checkbox list of projects with the current one selected. In
Page 2, a checkbox list of additional components would be shown (from a
global list we can maintain), with entries like 'DB2 CK 4.1', 'RDC
Runtime' etc. Page 3, would check the projects code for embedded Active
X objects. It would show the list and ask for including them. Then Page
4 would be the registration codes. It would be great if we can link an
(encrypted) file, that as a command parameter to the registration
program (or whatever) would complete the registration process. A list of
such (prepared) files would be shown (Product name, Serial# and
Registration name) and again tickboxes for adding them to the install.
Then Page 5 would be finish and a directory would be created with all
stuff in it and one setup.exe.

I don't know where the technical issues of my dream become an issue, but
something close to that would be sooooo cool.

I can imagine an XML file that the setup.exe reads with all the details.
A vertical market app, would only need new Licence files and perhaps an
altered XML file.

If DAW is afraid that the licence file are going to live a separate
life, you could make sure that the Studio's serial# is tied into the
licence file. The install then would check that the VDFApp.exe is
compiled with the serial# in the licence file, otherwise will not
automatically register.

Hope this is constructive to a proper solution to the issue.

Cheers,
Marco







Feel free to complete the list but the ones that I can come up with are:
- Unable to have one install of the runtime, the CK's the pac

Garret Mott
28-Dec-2006, 07:00 PM
Marco - What'd you have for breakfast this morning?

Another great idea!

Garret Mott

Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com

Mark Rutherford
30-Dec-2006, 01:01 AM
Something that feeds the brain? <g>

I personally think that someone at DAW is having a power trip, and they
like to see people squirm.
This has been brought up at gatherings, on the NG, and every time they
never, EVER answer this simple question: "why?"

The answer is - 'Because we can'


Garret Mott wrote:
> Marco - What'd you have for breakfast this morning?
>
> Another great idea!
>
> Garret Mott
>
> Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
> Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com
>
>

Martin
4-Jan-2007, 10:59 AM
Don't forget the Crystal option :)



Martin

Garret Mott
4-Jan-2007, 11:18 AM
Hi All -

I think Marco is suggesting something similar to what Visual Basic/Studio
offers. In another thread (Auto Interrupt in the VDF NG) Dennis mentioned
that he was not familiar with the VB debugger. I'm guessing that may also
mean that DAW is not familiar with how VB/VS does installs.

I no longer have VS.Net installed, but VB 6 comes with a "Package &
Deployment Wizard". This creates a complete installation program for your
app. You can add files/dependencies/db info, etc.

I think this is the kind of direction Marco was/is heading.

Garret Mott

Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com

Mark Rutherford
4-Jan-2007, 12:16 PM
..NET wraps it all up in an installer that is quite adequate, and even
checks to see that you have the right runtime, and will even go fetch it.

VDF, IMHO, should do this as well.
This has come up, and I guess I can suggest it again...
If DAW will not do this, then in future releases allow for studio
plugins and let someone else write a plugin to add this functionality.



Garret Mott wrote:
> Hi All -
>
> I think Marco is suggesting something similar to what Visual Basic/Studio
> offers. In another thread (Auto Interrupt in the VDF NG) Dennis mentioned
> that he was not familiar with the VB debugger. I'm guessing that may also
> mean that DAW is not familiar with how VB/VS does installs.
>
> I no longer have VS.Net installed, but VB 6 comes with a "Package &
> Deployment Wizard". This creates a complete installation program for your
> app. You can add files/dependencies/db info, etc.
>
> I think this is the kind of direction Marco was/is heading.
>
> Garret Mott
>
> Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
> Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com
>
>

Dennis Piccioni
4-Jan-2007, 12:31 PM
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:18:14 -0500, "Garret Mott"
<Garret_at_AutoMateSoftware_dot_com> wrote:

>Hi All -
>
>I think Marco is suggesting something similar to what Visual Basic/Studio
>offers. In another thread (Auto Interrupt in the VDF NG) Dennis mentioned
>that he was not familiar with the VB debugger. I'm guessing that may also
>mean that DAW is not familiar with how VB/VS does installs.
>

Hi Garret,

actually, I'm specifically unfamiliar with VB. As I explained in the
other thread, I haven't used BASIC in a long long time (20 years and
counting). I've used Visual Studio.Net with C#.

Most of us at DAW try to keep up-to-date with other technologies, but
everyone has different areas of expertise. In an area like IT, it's
impossible to keep up with everything nowadays.

Regards,
Dennis

Dennis Piccioni
Data Access Worldwide
http://www.DataAccess.com/support

Synergy 2007 -- Miami Beach here we come!
http://www.DataAccess.com/Synergy

Garret Mott
4-Jan-2007, 12:40 PM
Hi Dennis -

Please understand I wasn't complaining or throwing stones! Heck, I'm sure
you've forgotten more than I know... I also know it's impossible to be
familiar with all products.

I was only trying to point out that (like the debugger thread), VB & VS
offer a solution to this issue that is worth looking at.

Sorry if it didn't come across that way -

Garret Mott

Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com

Marco
10-Jan-2007, 06:25 PM
Hi All,

I had another idea. Perhaps VDF client should be available as a merge
module.

If you look at Crystal, now-a-days. Although we are complaining (well I
was) that we have to use the merge module, if VDF would also use this
technique, it would be much more worth it.

Crystal also has a smart way of for the registration code, where it is a
merge module that the developer needs insert the registration code into,
to then compile the installer.

So option B:
- VDF Client install available as merge module
- Evaluation registration in merge module, for developers to edit
- CK available as merge module
- DBBuilder as merge module (so we can decide to include or not)
- DBExplorer as merge module (so we can decide to include or not)
- Chapter in help to assist putting this all together as an install.

I still favour the option A, as this makes it soo much easier for the
beginning and hobby developer.
I guess the other 'problem' with registration code in merge module is
that a vert. market app builder would have to build an installer per client.

Anyway, some more food for thought.
Cheers,
Marco

Marco Kuipers wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> It seems to me that although everybody on the newsgroup are very
> competent developers, we all have issues with the client install.
>
> I think it all revolves around the following. A typical app with us is:
> - VDF Runtime
> - VDF client registration code
> - SQL Connectivity kit
> - SQL Connectivity kit code
> - SQL Client (DB2 client)
> - SQL Client connection settings to host
> - Own application
> - RDC runtime
> - Several Active X components
> - Active X registrations
>
> If these are done the only by DAW legally allowed way (that is not pack
> into one setup.exe), it takes even the fastest LAN Operation support guy
> 10 minutes per PC!!!. if there are 20 PC's that is almost half a days
> work... For a client self install... you just wouldn't let them...
>
> Then there are upgrades;
> - Check if VDF version x is installed, if not, install it,
> - Check if ......
>
> All in all, for a LAN Operations Guy, his/her worst nightmare. So what
> they do is create setup.exe's without realizing that this violates the
> licence. When they then stuff up, it is not their fault, nope, we are
> the ones they come to and complain it does not work (and don't tell us
> that they packed it in one, and that was the cause...)
>
> Anyway, where am I going with this...
>
> I really would like to be able to have a smooth install of all of the
> above with one interface.
>
> My dream is the following:
> In the studio we have a 'Build installer' option. Page 1 of the wizard
> would show a checkbox list of projects with the current one selected. In
> Page 2, a checkbox list of additional components would be shown (from a
> global list we can maintain), with entries like 'DB2 CK 4.1', 'RDC
> Runtime' etc. Page 3, would check the projects code for embedded Active
> X objects. It would show the list and ask for including them. Then Page
> 4 would be the registration codes. It would be great if we can link an
> (encrypted) file, that as a command parameter to the registration
> program (or whatever) would complete the registration process. A list of
> such (prepared) files would be shown (Product name, Serial# and
> Registration name) and again tickboxes for adding them to the install.
> Then Page 5 would be finish and a directory would be created with all
> stuff in it and one setup.exe.
>
> I don't know where the technical issues of my dream become an issue, but
> something close to that would be sooooo cool.
>
> I can imagine an XML file that the setup.exe reads with all the details.
> A vertical market app, would only need new Licence files and perhaps an
> altered XML file.
>
> If DAW is afraid that the licence file are going to live a separate
> life, you could make sure that the Studio's serial# is tied into the
> licence file. The install then would check that the VDFApp.exe is
> compiled with the serial# in the licence file, otherwise will not
> automatically register.
>
> Hope this is constructive to a proper solution to the issue.
>
> Cheers,
> Marco
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Feel free to complete the list but the ones that I can come up with are:
> - Unable to have one install of the runtime, the CK's the pac

Peter Brooks
26-Mar-2007, 07:16 AM
Marco,
One of the reasons we have not left vdf7 is the install issue. When you give
away demo versions of your software over the Web it must just install and
run. I don't care who they are, nor do I want to worry about any support. I
hope DAW are listening to these requests.

Peter Brooks

Stephen W. Meeley
26-Mar-2007, 10:35 AM
Hi Peter,

I'm not sure I understand what would stop you from doing what you describe.
In Visual DataFlex 12 (or really anything from 8.0 on) you would...

1. Have your application installation control everything.
2. Based on the location and options determined by your installation, create
a client configuration file (just an ASCII file) on the fly.
3. Include the entire client installation as part of what you install
4. Run the client installation as part of your installation, passing it the
client configuration file created by your installation

The client already includes the registration for eval, or you could use an
limited distribution license to put out a single-user "demo" that has your
own controlling mechanism. If you did the latter, just include the termlist
and .dfr files from that distribution license. If you haven't looked at the
control the client configuration file gives you lately, it's pretty much
everything:

1. Do you want a summary of the options shown (you'd probably set this to N)
2. Prompt for location or not (set to N so that your application
installation controls this)
3. Set the location (you would write this out based on the location
determined by your installation)
4. Select a language (set to N unless you want them to be able to select
different languages)
5. Language (default is ENGLISH, but can be any of the 11 supported
languages)
6. Prompt for registration (set this to N)
7. Install Database Builder (set however you want it)
8. Install Database Explorer (ditto)
9. Install FlexErrs (ditto)
10. Install eval registration (set to Y unless you are using a distribution
license)

All of the above you can do with the standard client installations. If you
really feel that, even with all of the control above you just can't use the
client installation, then talk to DAAP about entering into an agreement that
will let you take over complete control. We've worked with a number of
developers on that basis.

Best regards,

-SWM-



"Peter Brooks" <phbrooks@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:8N%23PfG6bHHA.1652@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
> Marco,
> One of the reasons we have not left vdf7 is the install issue. When you
> give away demo versions of your software over the Web it must just install
> and run. I don't care who they are, nor do I want to worry about any
> support. I hope DAW are listening to these requests.
>
> Peter Brooks

Peter Brooks
3-Oct-2007, 02:47 AM
Hi Steven,

Is there a setting to stop any questions being asked. Maybe that will happen
with the unlimited run-time?
I would like to prevent the Welcome screen, the License screen, and the 'You
are now ready to..' screen. That is now 3 less screens to be bothered about
and understanding what they mean for the end-user. At worst I'd settle for
only one screen appearing.

Peter Brooks