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View Full Version : I thought I'd see someone else do this, but....



Garret Mott
20-Jan-2005, 06:23 PM
After all the problems DAW had (is having?) with the MS news server
upgrades, maybe they have seen first hand some of our issues with the MS
environment. Both in reliability & cost.

Yep, it's that "L" word. OK, I'll say it out loud: Linux.

I'm not a Linux person. I prefer tools that make my life simpler (hence
VDF - most of the time;-) & I have yet to see, in my little bit of research,
a tool like VDF in the Linux environment. Even though I'm not that familiar
with it, I hear nothing but reports of stability, market share growth, and
people saying they'll never go back.

Way back when, DAC got left behind in the MS OS development arena. Hate to
say it, but it's true. More VB.net development license sales are made in a
day than VDF in a month? year? This is a shame, but maybe it really should
be looked at as creating a golden opportunity.

Maybe DAC could be the leader in RAD in Linux. I'm no OS wiz - but it seems
to me that with the 3.x Unix product already there, much of the work would
be the UI. OK, no simple task - but then DF 1.x wasn't either!

I know DAW consistently shoots down the Linux concept. I understand some of
the reasoning, but why are so many other companies embracing it? Imagine a
partnership with IBM on DB2 for Linux & their servers for example.

So - I'm throwing it out there. Maybe this is just another chance for it to
get shot down, but I had to try.

Garret

Knut Sparhell
20-Jan-2005, 10:10 PM
Garret Mott wrote:
> After all the problems DAW had (is having?) with the MS news server
> upgrades, maybe they have seen first hand some of our issues with the MS
> environment. Both in reliability & cost.
>
> Yep, it's that "L" word. OK, I'll say it out loud: Linux.

Your thoughts is just fine, but in the case of the newsgroups, it's a
matter of using th proper software, not primarily a OS thing.
Newsgroups service is not a property of any OS. It's an application
type software product.

Only if proper software is not available for the OS platform, then it
may become an OS issue, too.

Good software should, and are ver iften, available on top most used
platforms.

IIS NNTP Service is not such a product. But it was platform used, and
the main issue was how to keep the messages available and the time
available for the upgrade.

For Microsoft news/NNTP is still a not-invented-here thing.

--
Knut Sparhell, Norway

Garret Mott
21-Jan-2005, 07:33 AM
Knut -

I guess I wasn't clear. I do know that NG software is not part of the OS.

I was using the NG problem as an example of the MS world, so I wasn't
referring to replacing the OS the NG software runs on. I was (as has been
done before) trying to make the case that there should be a VDF for Linux,
since it's such a stable platform.

Regards,

Garret

"Knut Sparhell" <knut@sparhell.no> wrote in message
news:dvvuva2$EHA.4760@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
> Garret Mott wrote:
>> After all the problems DAW had (is having?) with the MS news server
>> upgrades, maybe they have seen first hand some of our issues with the MS
>> environment. Both in reliability & cost.
>>
>> Yep, it's that "L" word. OK, I'll say it out loud: Linux.
>
> Your thoughts is just fine, but in the case of the newsgroups, it's a
> matter of using th proper software, not primarily a OS thing. Newsgroups
> service is not a property of any OS. It's an application type software
> product.
>
> Only if proper software is not available for the OS platform, then it may
> become an OS issue, too.
>
> Good software should, and are ver iften, available on top most used
> platforms.
>
> IIS NNTP Service is not such a product. But it was platform used, and the
> main issue was how to keep the messages available and the time available
> for the upgrade.
>
> For Microsoft news/NNTP is still a not-invented-here thing.
>
> --
> Knut Sparhell, Norway

Bob Cergol
21-Jan-2005, 08:50 AM
I wonder how dependent DAW is on Microsofts cooperation, help and support.
Assuming they are, I suppose MS would dismiss them as soon as DAW embarked
on a serious Linux effort -- probably DAW cannot afford to be orphaned by MS
without an immediate revenue stream from the other platform.
Bob

"Garret Mott" <garret@automatesoftware.com> wrote in message
news:dUuwHc0$EHA.5448@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
> After all the problems DAW had (is having?) with the MS news server
> upgrades, maybe they have seen first hand some of our issues with the MS
> environment. Both in reliability & cost.
>
> Yep, it's that "L" word. OK, I'll say it out loud: Linux.
>
> I'm not a Linux person. I prefer tools that make my life simpler (hence
> VDF - most of the time;-) & I have yet to see, in my little bit of
research,
> a tool like VDF in the Linux environment. Even though I'm not that
familiar
> with it, I hear nothing but reports of stability, market share growth, and
> people saying they'll never go back.
>
> Way back when, DAC got left behind in the MS OS development arena. Hate
to
> say it, but it's true. More VB.net development license sales are made in
a
> day than VDF in a month? year? This is a shame, but maybe it really
should
> be looked at as creating a golden opportunity.
>
> Maybe DAC could be the leader in RAD in Linux. I'm no OS wiz - but it
seems
> to me that with the 3.x Unix product already there, much of the work would
> be the UI. OK, no simple task - but then DF 1.x wasn't either!
>
> I know DAW consistently shoots down the Linux concept. I understand some
of
> the reasoning, but why are so many other companies embracing it? Imagine
a
> partnership with IBM on DB2 for Linux & their servers for example.
>
> So - I'm throwing it out there. Maybe this is just another chance for it
to
> get shot down, but I had to try.
>
> Garret
>
>

Peager
21-Jan-2005, 04:02 PM
It would seem to me that one of, and perhaps the major, reasons we won't see
this happen is that Linux, being in the Open Source arena, has the
connotation of being free/cheap/low cost. I believe that DAW's question is
'Do we want to write a development tool for an OS that is thought of as
being free/cheap/low cost?'

They have to generate revenue to support whatever they do and I'm not sure
that there is revenue waiting for them in that arena.

Paul E. Richmond
IS Project Leader
L.D. McFarland Co.
(253) 572-3033
"Garret Mott" <garret@automatesoftware.com> wrote in message
news:%23AmypV7$EHA.5672@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
> Knut -
>
> I guess I wasn't clear. I do know that NG software is not part of the OS.
>
> I was using the NG problem as an example of the MS world, so I wasn't
> referring to replacing the OS the NG software runs on. I was (as has been
> done before) trying to make the case that there should be a VDF for Linux,
> since it's such a stable platform.
>
> Regards,
>
> Garret
>
> "Knut Sparhell" <knut@sparhell.no> wrote in message
> news:dvvuva2$EHA.4760@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
>> Garret Mott wrote:
>>> After all the problems DAW had (is having?) with the MS news server
>>> upgrades, maybe they have seen first hand some of our issues with the MS
>>> environment. Both in reliability & cost.
>>>
>>> Yep, it's that "L" word. OK, I'll say it out loud: Linux.
>>
>> Your thoughts is just fine, but in the case of the newsgroups, it's a
>> matter of using th proper software, not primarily a OS thing. Newsgroups
>> service is not a property of any OS. It's an application type software
>> product.
>>
>> Only if proper software is not available for the OS platform, then it may
>> become an OS issue, too.
>>
>> Good software should, and are ver iften, available on top most used
>> platforms.
>>
>> IIS NNTP Service is not such a product. But it was platform used, and
>> the main issue was how to keep the messages available and the time
>> available for the upgrade.
>>
>> For Microsoft news/NNTP is still a not-invented-here thing.
>>
>> --
>> Knut Sparhell, Norway
>
>

Garret Mott
21-Jan-2005, 07:37 PM
Hi Paul & Bob -

First, the "cheap" or low cost concept. I don't think IT people look at
Linux as either, but I'm not an industry expert. I do hear grumblings about
the cost of maintaining MS systems & (IMHO) they are valid. Thousands of
dollars for MS SQL Server or any of the OS's & then you find out that the
labor for applying patches is even more. We've all seen the issues. I
guess my take is that sooner or later there will be a good dev. system to
appear for Linux & I've hoped DAW might be the one to do it.

MS cooperation with DAW? I can honestly say I know nothing about it. But,
with Bill & company's past heavy handed tactics & the fact that VDF is in
direct competition with VB.net, I can't imagine there's a lot there. Of
course I may be completely wrong. VDF presence in the US (once again, IMHO)
is just too small to be a big blip on the MS radar screen. It is bigger in
the rest of the world, but still not a serious threat to VB.

Maybe the denials are all a smoke screen so that DAW can catch the world by
surprise when they announce it? <g>.

Good to have the conversation - thanks.

Garret


"Bob Cergol" <rcergol@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:vgOTN%237$EHA.1272@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
>I wonder how dependent DAW is on Microsofts cooperation, help and support.
> Assuming they are, I suppose MS would dismiss them as soon as DAW embarked
> on a serious Linux effort -- probably DAW cannot afford to be orphaned by
> MS
> without an immediate revenue stream from the other platform.
> Bob
>
> "Garret Mott" <garret@automatesoftware.com> wrote in message
> news:dUuwHc0$EHA.5448@dacmail.dataaccess.com...
>> After all the problems DAW had (is having?) with the MS news server
>> upgrades, maybe they have seen first hand some of our issues with the MS
>> environment. Both in reliability & cost.
>>
>> Yep, it's that "L" word. OK, I'll say it out loud: Linux.
>>
>> I'm not a Linux person. I prefer tools that make my life simpler (hence
>> VDF - most of the time;-) & I have yet to see, in my little bit of
> research,
>> a tool like VDF in the Linux environment. Even though I'm not that
> familiar
>> with it, I hear nothing but reports of stability, market share growth,
>> and
>> people saying they'll never go back.
>>
>> Way back when, DAC got left behind in the MS OS development arena. Hate
> to
>> say it, but it's true. More VB.net development license sales are made in
> a
>> day than VDF in a month? year? This is a shame, but maybe it really
> should
>> be looked at as creating a golden opportunity.
>>
>> Maybe DAC could be the leader in RAD in Linux. I'm no OS wiz - but it
> seems
>> to me that with the 3.x Unix product already there, much of the work
>> would
>> be the UI. OK, no simple task - but then DF 1.x wasn't either!
>>
>> I know DAW consistently shoots down the Linux concept. I understand some
> of
>> the reasoning, but why are so many other companies embracing it? Imagine
> a
>> partnership with IBM on DB2 for Linux & their servers for example.
>>
>> So - I'm throwing it out there. Maybe this is just another chance for it
> to
>> get shot down, but I had to try.
>>
>> Garret
>>
>>
>
>

Magnus Bergh
4-Mar-2005, 10:25 AM
I think that DAW should start using a web based forum instead. There are
many nice BBS system to choose from.

Knut Sparhell
4-Mar-2005, 11:15 AM
Magnus Bergh wrote:
> I think that DAW should start using a web based forum instead. There are
> many nice BBS system to choose from.

Why?

--
Knut Sparhell, Norway

Magnus Bergh
7-Mar-2005, 09:59 AM
To be able to use the newsgroups from any computer and not having to
deal with installing/configure newsreaders. When you are out on a
customer's site then you can still access the forum ro post/read
replies.

Not to mention syncronizing which messages have been read etc.

I have been using a lot of different forum software (including news) and
it is so much quicker/easier to get started with a web based forum.
First I missed the threading (those forum software that do have this
don't do it very well) but I have learned to live without it and don't
think it is much of a problem.

There are also other features that is great. You can get a notice when
someone post a reply to your message, integrating images, using
different fonts and a lot of other stuff that you can do because
messages are in html.